“We are in a sense our own parents, and we give birth to ourselves by our own free choice of what is good. Such a choice becomes possible for us when we have received God into ourselves and have become children of God, children of the Most High. On the other hand, if what the Apostle calls the form of Christ has not been produced in us, we abort ourselves. The man of God must reach maturity.” [ A sermon on Ecclesiastes by St Gregory of Nyssa ‘There is a time to be born and a time to die’]
Except evolution WILL tell you what to do, and in this case, it will do so speaking from the deepest most ancient part of your brain:
We’re social animals, we’re built for mildness and tolerance but we also naturally recognise limits and we react strongly to sociopathy. We naturally make murderers and rapists outlaws.
This isn’t a god-given superpower, it’s just the set of characteristics of a winning tribe, the same kind of tribes our successful ancestors were part of.
Morals are a code of conduct that humans agree to adhere to in order that they may co-exist. The only thing that all the various gods do is get in the way and befuddle that morality with contradictions and reasons to fight one religion against another. We need a brotherhood of humankind. Without gods. Period.
it would have been a valid argument if everyone had the same moral obligation.. everyone has a different degree of moral obligation is a proof that there is no God as per this logic.
Empathy, compassion and a conscience. Frank knows it but he’s so fucking dishonest he makes Christians look the same. Evolution absolutely deals with morals. It’s in our genetics to work together for common goals.
Religious people individually can be moral, but faith can’t give them a framework to explain why anything is right or wrong.
Unless any apologist can manage it?
Evolution necessitates morality in humans because our ability to cooperate, share ideas and work as a team is one of the biggest factors of our success as a species.
I wanna live. It looks like others want to live. Even animals want to live. Because they value their lives. This whole monkey business that a Sky Guy delusion is required for life to be valuable is honestly a crock of s–t !
Listen, if believing objective morality comes from a diety, that’s fine. I’d rather that than you decide to start hurting people because you don’t know how to be accountable for your own decisions and have to be told how to behave civilized. Please keep believing as it keeps normal people safe.
Evolution is just the process by which life has diversified on this planet. Humans, just like other modern apes evolved as a social species. We survived because we learned early on that murder was wrong. There is nothing moral about the god of the old testament so our morailty can not come from there.
I don’t want to be murdered because I don’t want to be harmed and with that realization I can assume other people also desire not to be harmed.
Why do I care about not harming them? Because if I don’t care, then they don’t care about harming me.
If I care about living in a safe sociey and my own well being then its best that we also care about other people’s well being.
With that, our nature for truly caring about other people, even selflessly, still serves our personal and collective best interest.
Run two simulations, both without a lawgiver, one where no one cares about harming eachother and another where everyone cares about eachother. Which one will flourish?
Frank gives the example of a speed limit which could not be more perfect.
Yes there was someone to give the speed limit. But speed limits where not just decided, they were based on objective truths outside the lawgivers about what speeds are objectively the safest given the applied streets. Before there ever was a speed limit these truths still applied.
Even if no streets had speed limits, the unspoken objective truths of what is the best and worst consequential speeds to be going on each street where still a reality.
Frank completely misses that in his analogy, objective safest speeds still exist apart from a lawgiver. And that it still would matter for society what speed we go.
Morality is as objective as rules for an economy. Except where the foundation of an economy is a social structure, the foundation of mortality is our lived experience.
This is a simple objetive tradeoff and function of establishing a law about what is wrong behavior.
Any animal like chimps that has high enough cognition to begin to understand these objective tradeoff they begin to apply them within their society.
It matters because the reality is there of what would happen in a society that doesn’t care about harming eachother.
I don’t understand why apologists so badly need morality to come from only God. Whether it comes from God or not, the objective tradeoffs, consequences, and what is wrong behavior for a cared society remain exactly the same.
They just really really need it to not be able to exist without God.
It’s as dumb as arguing that we can’t decide what pain and comfort is without a comfort lawgiver. Without God none of it matters. No, it matters because there are objective truths experienced based on our physical condition and like morality that is also based on our experiences we can know where to categorize pain and comfort.
Morality is an objective truth outside of God, like cause and effect is and God in his infinite wisdom like the team who discovered the safest speed limits, God knows the absolute best course to take in this truth, but doesn’t create it.
"evolution has no authority to tell you what to do"… go stand at the edge of a cliff and try to jump off… that feeling of absolute terror is evolutions authority, and it’s a might more powerful than a verse in the bible that tells you not to wear mixed fabric or eat shellfish.
This is not talking about a conscience, this is talking about recognizing there is a creator and acknowledging that he knows how we should use our conscience and agreeing with it.
You don’t have to agree with it, you could say I want to use my conscience the way I want to use it, I know better, I don’t need anyone including the creator of me to tell me how to use it, because I know better than he does.
@giuseppeperrotta-x4ion August 1, 2025 at 12:40 am
So what moral the amazonian are following they live without a god they fight like religious people they have rules without a god religion is for people that can t think for themselves
#jesus #atheism #frankturek
“We are in a sense our own parents, and we give birth to ourselves by our own free choice of what is good. Such a choice becomes possible for us when we have received God into ourselves and have become children of God, children of the Most High. On the other hand, if what the Apostle calls the form of Christ has not been produced in us, we abort ourselves. The man of God must reach maturity.” [ A sermon on Ecclesiastes by St Gregory of Nyssa ‘There is a time to be born and a time to die’]
https://youtu.be/iG-JLmc4Krw?si=EfqwuUl7msf9RJtq
This is a very terrible thing to say, it’s very insulting to the human species.
So what moral the amazonian are following they live without a god they fight like religious people they have rules without a god
Absolute BS, from someone desperate to imagine that there’s a "god".
Evolution exists _because_ folks wish to do as they please without fear of consequence.
It’s not morality. It’s survival for the species. I believe in a Creator but morality is not real
Why did God apologize for the flood? Couldn’t follow his own rules! lol
God impregnated 13 year old Mary is god pedophile?
This guy is such an idiot
Except evolution WILL tell you what to do, and in this case, it will do so speaking from the deepest most ancient part of your brain:
We’re social animals, we’re built for mildness and tolerance but we also naturally recognise limits and we react strongly to sociopathy. We naturally make murderers and rapists outlaws.
This isn’t a god-given superpower, it’s just the set of characteristics of a winning tribe, the same kind of tribes our successful ancestors were part of.
This is such a dishonest argument, we understand that if we kill each other our species cannot survive. It’s really that simple!
I feel sorry for religious people who have nothing in their life apart from religious delusions
Morals are a code of conduct that humans agree to adhere to in order that they may co-exist. The only thing that all the various gods do is get in the way and befuddle that morality with contradictions and reasons to fight one religion against another. We need a brotherhood of humankind. Without gods. Period.
Romans 1 says it all.
it would have been a valid argument if everyone had the same moral obligation.. everyone has a different degree of moral obligation is a proof that there is no God as per this logic.
Have these people ever heard of empathy???
You don’t need an authority to order you to do what’s in your best interests. People worked out morality by themselves.
Empathy, compassion and a conscience. Frank knows it but he’s so fucking dishonest he makes Christians look the same. Evolution absolutely deals with morals. It’s in our genetics to work together for common goals.
God is the most murderous being ever so your logic sucks, as usual.
Why are humans objectively valuable? I don’t see how you can come to this conclusion
This is BS. Moral codes predate the Abrahamic religions by millennia.
So what
Also sound and light have speed limits
Religious people individually can be moral, but faith can’t give them a framework to explain why anything is right or wrong.
Unless any apologist can manage it?
Nothing
Morality comes from having empathy and compassion for others. No God is necessary.
The core of the laws that protect our country are based on the Ten Commandments.
The Golden Rule. Even animals have moral obligations. How in the World does that take you to God??
Evolution necessitates morality in humans because our ability to cooperate, share ideas and work as a team is one of the biggest factors of our success as a species.
I wanna live. It looks like others want to live. Even animals want to live. Because they value their lives. This whole monkey business that a Sky Guy delusion is required for life to be valuable is honestly a crock of s–t !
Thats evolutionnarey traits thats developed through our species to help us preserve our society working together. We dont need a god to get morals.
People don’t worship God because they are scared of what will happen if they don’t. They worship God because they understand what God has given them.
Listen, if believing objective morality comes from a diety, that’s fine. I’d rather that than you decide to start hurting people because you don’t know how to be accountable for your own decisions and have to be told how to behave civilized. Please keep believing as it keeps normal people safe.
He can’t come up with any reasons why life is valuable without a god to tell him. Some people just prefer being sheep I guess.
"Nothing" is the truth, it’s nothing. Our freewill allows us to choose. We don’t need authority.
Evolution is just the process by which life has diversified on this planet. Humans, just like other modern apes evolved as a social species. We survived because we learned early on that murder was wrong. There is nothing moral about the god of the old testament so our morailty can not come from there.
I don’t want to be murdered because I don’t want to be harmed and with that realization I can assume other people also desire not to be harmed.
Why do I care about not harming them? Because if I don’t care, then they don’t care about harming me.
If I care about living in a safe sociey and my own well being then its best that we also care about other people’s well being.
With that, our nature for truly caring about other people, even selflessly, still serves our personal and collective best interest.
Run two simulations, both without a lawgiver, one where no one cares about harming eachother and another where everyone cares about eachother. Which one will flourish?
Frank gives the example of a speed limit which could not be more perfect.
Yes there was someone to give the speed limit. But speed limits where not just decided, they were based on objective truths outside the lawgivers about what speeds are objectively the safest given the applied streets. Before there ever was a speed limit these truths still applied.
Even if no streets had speed limits, the unspoken objective truths of what is the best and worst consequential speeds to be going on each street where still a reality.
Frank completely misses that in his analogy, objective safest speeds still exist apart from a lawgiver. And that it still would matter for society what speed we go.
Morality is as objective as rules for an economy. Except where the foundation of an economy is a social structure, the foundation of mortality is our lived experience.
This is a simple objetive tradeoff and function of establishing a law about what is wrong behavior.
Any animal like chimps that has high enough cognition to begin to understand these objective tradeoff they begin to apply them within their society.
It matters because the reality is there of what would happen in a society that doesn’t care about harming eachother.
I don’t understand why apologists so badly need morality to come from only God. Whether it comes from God or not, the objective tradeoffs, consequences, and what is wrong behavior for a cared society remain exactly the same.
They just really really need it to not be able to exist without God.
It’s as dumb as arguing that we can’t decide what pain and comfort is without a comfort lawgiver. Without God none of it matters. No, it matters because there are objective truths experienced based on our physical condition and like morality that is also based on our experiences we can know where to categorize pain and comfort.
Morality is an objective truth outside of God, like cause and effect is and God in his infinite wisdom like the team who discovered the safest speed limits, God knows the absolute best course to take in this truth, but doesn’t create it.
I find this argument completely ridiculous. One does not need a god to know that causing harm to another person is wrong.
If you need a skypapi to see life as valuable, or not murder someone, please continue to believe in sky papi.
Sometimes it’s ok to believe in things that aren’t true
"evolution has no authority to tell you what to do"… go stand at the edge of a cliff and try to jump off… that feeling of absolute terror is evolutions authority, and it’s a might more powerful than a verse in the bible that tells you not to wear mixed fabric or eat shellfish.
It’s more like we proclaimed self-righteousness.
My life has meaning and I don’t believe in your imaginary, friand.
Even if I did , I certainly wouldn’t worshipbut
If there is no God
We are all just random chemical
Mutations. There is no good or bad
This is not talking about a conscience, this is talking about recognizing there is a creator and acknowledging that he knows how we should use our conscience and agreeing with it.
You don’t have to agree with it, you could say I want to use my conscience the way I want to use it, I know better, I don’t need anyone including the creator of me to tell me how to use it, because I know better than he does.
So what moral the amazonian are following they live without a god they fight like religious people they have rules without a god religion is for people that can t think for themselves
Define good and evil?